AUTO-GENERATED TRANSCRIPT

Brianna Battles  00:01

Welcome to the Practice Brave Podcast. I am the host Brianna Battles, founder of pregnancy and postpartum athleticism, and CEO of Everyday Battles. I’m a career strength and conditioning coach, entrepreneur, mom of two wild little boys and a lifelong athlete. I believe that athleticism does not end when motherhood begins, and this podcast is dedicated to coaching you by providing meaningful conversations, insights and interview topics related to fitness, mindset, parenting and of course, all the nuances of pregnancy and postpartum, from expert interviews to engaging conversations and reflections. This podcast is your trustworthy, relatable resource for learning how to practice brave through every season in your life. Everyone, welcome back to the practice brave podcast, and today I’m here with two very special guests and friends and longtime CrossFit athletes, Annie Thor’s daughter and Catherine David sauter, so really excited to talk about the current season of life. Both of them are in as athlete moms and Og CrossFit moms, or, you know, now entering into the CrossFit mom scene. So Annie Katrin, thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having

Annie Thorisdottir  01:19

1. Yeah, thank you for having us. I’m excited. Yeah.

Brianna Battles  01:23

So you know, we have recently partnered on empower to bring pregnancy and postpartum training programs to our combined audiences, because we have seen, obviously, an uptick in interest and of just more active athletic moms getting pregnant, and we, we haven’t been able to share much about that yet, but I think it was a really important partnership. When I, when you two reached out to me, I was really excited to hear from you. So Do either of you want to share a bit about that? Yeah.

Annie Thorisdottir  01:55

So it was kind of first when I got pregnant. I felt like it was a little bit hard to navigate, hard to know it was a lot of listen to your body and you’ll figure it out. And I hate it that advice. But once I got pregnant, I started to understand the advice. And the further along I got, I started to understand it even more. But the amount of messages I got about assisting others with their training while pregnant, and I did not feel had the knowledge or the experience to start giving other people advice, because I was seeking advice from different places. I talked a little bit with you how like floor specialists, like I was just making sure I was taking care of myself, and then I was able to convey the message and, like, tell women what I did, the changes I had made, but they were very different from maybe changes that others had to make, and then throughout the next pregnancy, more questions than Every time someone around me, especially if they were active, got pregnant, and from the CrossFit world, like I just got a lot of requests regarding a training program and assistance and guidance. And I think what you’re looking for is the reassurance that it’s okay what you’re doing, or knowing that it’s safe what you’re doing for both your baby and yourself. So I feel like that was the biggest thing for me, was when I first got pregnant and would exercise the fear I sometimes had when I finished training, and I’m like, did I do too much? I didn’t have to do this much? Did I do too much? Is something like gonna happen? Like, is this gonna have bad effect or negative effect? And it was like just getting that reassurance. And when Katherine got pregnant, we’re like, we need to do this where, obviously we have focus on women in theory and post menopause. But then when she also got pregnant, where we’re like, oh, we’re gonna talk to Bree. We’re gonna do this properly. We have a lot of knowledge and experience, like, underneath that belts with just like training, and me going through two pregnancies, but we always wanna make sure we have the highest standard, and that’s why we reached out to you. When we’re excited, then we made this happen? Yeah, I

Katrin Davidsdottir  04:22

think it’s one of those things that within power, our ultimate, like umbrella goal would be to just serve women in general. And we started with going through our moms and seeing what our moms are going through. And we are very much targeting women in a Peri and post menopause, and just seeing the gap that was there, and through Annie, seeing how much she had done for her mom, and hearing my mom say the exact same stories, that’s how it started. And then us going through pregnancy, and I’m very lucky to always be a couple of steps behind Annie, because she is already. Been through it all I can. She’s my biggest resource, and she had already connected with you. So I had that direct link of like, okay, I now know so much, or I feel like I know so much about my own training. But suddenly I felt like I I didn’t know my body. I didn’t know what was okay. I didn’t know how I could push and I felt so good grabbing that confidence from you of being able to ask, because there’s so much difference between expertise or experience and expertise. I can only, like, draw back on my own experience and you have the expertise on actually, you know, my experience might also be different than Annie’s or some other woman’s, and so I never want to say that I am an expert, because I have my own experience. Yes, I can, I can talk about my own experience, but we’re also just learning and seeing how my confidence changed, not only in, you know, getting an exercise, but there’s also these, all these little nuances of, how am I supposed to be feeling rotational work like pelvic pelvic floor work in our core, work, all of these different things that I had never done before in my life, that now I am doing. I was able to have a phenomenal pregnancies. Like, why would we not

Brianna Battles  06:21

want to pay that forward? Really grateful that you guys reached out, because I think it just helps extend the message that I’ve certainly been trying to put out there for a long time. But ultimately, I think we’ve gone from very minimal information and conversation around this to a lot of information and a lot of voices, which then creates that confusion and fear, like the very thing that we didn’t want we’ve seen get generated because we again, we went from like no concept of what diastasis was or what incontinence or prolapse was, no one knew what that was. And then, particularly CrossFitters, started experiencing symptoms, and because they are so dependent on their bodies performing, they feel like something is, quote, wrong with them. That generated a lot of interest, a lot of concern, a lot of conversation around training during pregnancy and postpartum. And we’ve just seen this pendulum swing, and we’ve honestly seen a full circle in the narrative that is out there for how to train during pregnancy and postpartum. And what I love about our collaboration is you two are very athletic women. You’ve been in the game for so long, you know how to train in general. And frankly, if you wanted to lift as heavy as possible and do all of the movements during pregnancy and early postpartum, you physically would be able to if that’s not the conversation, although that is a lot of times, what in particular CrossFit athletes want to do is like, well, how much can I keep doing? How early can I get back? Yeah, and then on the other end of that, we see the fear around it. Well, I don’t want to do anything that’s going to hurt the baby, or is this too much, or what should I do or not do? And the bottom line is, it can be a really confusing landscape, even for those of us who really understand our bodies, even like really have a lot of experience training or coaching, it’s still confusing landscape because of the loud messages we kind of get on both sides, absolutely,

Katrin Davidsdottir  08:25

yeah, I couldn’t agree more. It says we’ve had a lot of conversations on that, on how this isn’t a time, at least for me, I didn’t feel like this was a time for me to improve my athleticism or for me to check what I could be doing. I very much thought of exercise as stimulus and something to think about exercise as health, and continuing to build a foundation so that I feel good. I believe it was good for my baby and then also for me to come back later. So more thinking about it as building that foundation, rather than testing what I can do at this week or this week pregnant, I didn’t need to do that, but sometimes it can. You have this competitive mindset. Of course you want to check and of course you want to still be doing your chest to bar pull ups or toes to bar, and it’s more fun. But at the same time, I, like very often just have to tell myself, of like, I don’t need to. I can do kettlebell swings instead of toes to bar, and I still get a great workout, even though it’s not exactly how it was written.

Brianna Battles  09:25

Yeah, and it’s interesting, like, we I’ve seen that with, like, the professional athletes I work with are very much okay and secure and confident in their body, in their training, knowing, like, I’m gonna be doing this like, soon, you know where you can pause some things or make adjustments to your training, knowing that it’s not a forever thing. It’s not over. You’re not You’re not fragile. And I think that’s like the the maturity that a lot of high level athletes have that I try to encourage as a top down behavior. An effect for all of us as athlete moms and more recreational CrossFitters and more recreational active moms, is like, you don’t have to prove anything to yourself or anyone else, and you don’t. You’re not like, really limited, either you’re not fragile. You can still train, you can still push. It’s just not like, what is the root of, like, where this is coming from? Is it insecurity, or is it ego? Like, how do we, like, have that self awareness and be able to assess in that moment?

Annie Thorisdottir  10:29

Yeah, I think it’s like, a difficult balance, because it is in that moment when you’re maybe, like, training with other people, and it used to be the best one is like, I’m still gonna beat you on this bike interval or whatever. It was easy for me to back up some of the things that just like, didn’t feel right. I got a lot of coning. Was feeling certain things. I’m like, okay, it’s fine. Because I was thinking about the longevity of it. I was thinking about, I just want to make sure that I come back healthy, not necessarily thinking about competing, but that I come back and my body will be able to recover from it, because I don’t need to get fitter during this time. However, I did feel like it really mattered to me to what’s the right word to use here, like it mattered to me, to feel like I was doing the right things for myself, and I wanted to know what those right things were. So for me, it’s just like having been an athlete for this long. I started thinking, what is it that I can do that will make me feel better and recover faster, and that’s where I feel like training is so important when you’re apartment, especially if you’ve been training before, and even if you haven’t, just like on the days where I didn’t train, my back was stiff, things started hurting. I felt heavier. I had worse heartburn, like there was so many things that came when I didn’t exercise and didn’t, didn’t do anything, and then with my training, I started thinking, I can work on maybe my threshold and my zone two at this stage, and that might even make my fitness better after pregnancy, I didn’t have to put in right now I’m doing two weeks I’m like, I don’t have to put in that much work to get my heart rate to, like, 130 540 and I can do an hour of song two, and feel like champion over here, you know? So like, there are these certain things that you can do where you just feel so accomplished and like you’re doing something for yourself for later on. At least that was my takeaway when I had to take out so many things. I always had something that I felt like I could work yeah

Brianna Battles  12:52

towards Yeah. And there is, there’s always something that you can improve upon, that you can focus, like, where you just you finally have the ability to shift the priority of your training, where, sometimes, when you’re training for a competition, you know that you have to be training a certain way, lifting a certain load at a certain threshold, like, everything is very meticulous and very metric driven and or very, you know, just, it’s just very attached to what you’re able to physically do that you can’t focus on some of the other like more like smaller, more specific things. And so I think for a lot of athletes, this is a great opportunity to, like, reframe, reset. What are small things that I can work on to improve? How can I understand my body more? And then ultimately, I say, like, these are catalyst seasons for that reason, like they lay such a great foundation for setting you up for all of your future seasons as an athlete, mom and as you enter perimenopause and menopause, like, when you have a good foundation of body education and awareness and being able to change your training a little bit as needed over time, like, that’s going to make you more adaptable and give you a lot more sustainability as an athlete.

Annie Thorisdottir  13:58

And just like the mental like, obviously, having been feeding for so many years and having the stress and pressure for such a long time, going into training where that wasn’t there, I think that so much for my head. Like I got pregnant in 2020 and that year, coming back after that was hard as come back, but at the same time, there was also, I was more ready to push and train than I have been in like, a decade.

Brianna Battles  14:36

Yeah, that mental break is so freeing, and ultimately, like, I guess, I think it gives you a lot of leverage on the other side. That’s why I’m like, it’s not necessarily about what you can do during pregnancy. It’s what you’re setting yourself up for postpartum with, like, the mental and physical reset that you get during those seasons, even though there’s an added challenge and added stimulus and your aspects of your identity and your lifestyle. Are certainly changing. There’s an element of like, who you are as an athlete that really transforms, and it is a good thing, even if it’s different. It’s ultimately like a really good thing for a lot of women, I

Katrin Davidsdottir  15:13

think a lot of professional athletes in general, struggle just with finding identity in something other than their sport. And I look back at, you know, when I got a disc herniation in 2019 and suddenly having to be in this I just remember being like, what am I if I’m not an athlete? Like, that’s all I am. And having to actually have that talk with myself of like, I am a daughter and a sister and a friend and I’m all of these other things outside of being an athlete, and I just think becoming a mom is the strongest version of that, not only in like I just think in life in general, and just the strongest purpose that I’ve ever felt, and the most natural purpose and the biggest pull that I’ve ever felt. So in that sense too, it kind of puts everything else into perspective, which I honestly just think helps you in the gym. Like, the gym isn’t everything, and a bad day in the gym is just a bad day in the gym. You also just learn how to be kind to yourself. Of, like, how would I talk to her? What do I want for her? You know,

Annie Thorisdottir  16:17

that is like, the strongest, right?

Brianna Battles  16:21

Yeah, I really, like forces you to, like, reframe, right, where you’re, like, how do I want to be showing up now, now that I have the responsibility of, like, raising this next generation of little athletes. Like, it’s, yes, my goals and everything matter, and I it’s now in consideration of, you know, the lens of like, raising your child, yeah, so Annie, you had in the history of us knowing each other, you have had to withstand a lot of opinions around your training and your body on social media. And I feel like that was like when we originally connected all of those years ago, because I was like, I cannot stand by and watch people almost like bully you about what your stomach looked like when they had no concept of diastasis and of anything like that. Like it was getting so pathologized, and then you were getting shamed, and people just giving it really like a lot of uninformed opinions. And I know that that acted as a major catalyst for you in terms of really caring about the pregnant athlete and postpartum athlete experience, and then furthermore showcasing that even if your body has esthetically changed or even functionally changed, you can still be an athlete because you went on to podium after becoming a mom, after receiving so many commentary and judgment on your body, yeah?

Annie Thorisdottir  17:53

So well, is that off me, with me having a fantastic pregnancy, like, Yeah, I had to adjust. I had to take a lot more, and then maybe a lot of other women, I have that abdominal separation. And I actually noticed, like looking at footage back in time, I had a little bit of coning even before I got pregnant. So maybe that’s also a reason my abs have always, like, stuck out a little. Anyways, I my pregnancy was fantastic. I felt so good. My birth was really, really difficult, very challenging, traumatic. Ended up being very long. I ended up being able to give birth normally, but it was like we were in surgical ready for a C section. Like it was us. I lost over two liters of blood, and Freya was super lactic as well. So, like, she needed some carrot too. And then same thing, like the adjustment, like, Was I being too stubborn? Like, should I have asked for a C session sooner? And all of these, just like blasting things come to your hand, she came out and was like, so strong, like she recovered so quickly. And they were, like they were monitoring her heart rate as well. And I’m like, this is where my training maybe came in handy. Like she was used to getting her heart rate up and recovering, heart rate up and recovering because she was like a little rock star and she was grain. It took me a long time to recover from that. So my pelvic floor got just a very serious injury, and I had to seek out just assistance for then I found a physiotherapist here in Iceland. I got electro stimulation, actually on the inside, to just get my muscles to activate again. And the funny thing is, I had gone through like participated in test study few years back, so I knew how. From my pelvic floor was beforehand, and then seeing the difference was insane, like, I could not really activate my pelvic floor. And was

Brianna Battles  20:10

that because, just for the for those who didn’t hear on the podcast we recorded a couple years ago, did you have significant tearing? Was it the pushing? Was it like, what was it that was that caused the injury.

Annie Thorisdottir  20:22

So, like, in that start case, but she never really dropped properly either. So my pelvic floor was just really, really stiff and tight and wouldn’t allow her to, like, drop properly for me to be able to push. So I was in a push phase for over three hours, and then a lot of other things, like tearing and cutting and, you know, the fun shit that can happen,

Katrin Davidsdottir  20:47

all the stuff, yeah.

Annie Thorisdottir  20:51

So yeah, that that caused that severe injury, just being in that for so long, so that was just such a surprise to me. After having such a great kind of pregnancy I was expecting, I’ve been in touch with Cara Webb a little and like reading and looking around, and it was like you can do everything within like six weeks. After you’re clear to do everything in like six weeks. I’ll be there in four weeks, you know, it’ll be no big deal. I’ll be full on doing everything sooner than that. And was just yeah, that was my expectations. And this was just so different, because even for me, going for a walk four weeks later was difficult, because I had lost so much blood and my pelvic floor could not handle walking with a stroller downhill for like, two months, I was feeling pressure, and two, three months pressure and uncomfortable walking downhill with a stroller like Frederick had to take the stroller, and I had to walk like slowly because of just pressure feeling. So that was the strength of my pelvic floor. Then I worked a lot on that, but my core, like you said, and people noticed, took a really, really long time to recover. It just didn’t bounce back. I didn’t look the way I thought everyone looked after that given birth, like that belly would disappear and you’d get your stomach back again, and it was just this big, floppy, empty vessel that I had and had no control over. It looked like, it looked like I was still pregnant, and we went house hunting, and I don’t even want to tell you how many people asked how far along I was, and I’m like, I have a tiny baby in my hand. Do you think I am pregnant right now? Like that. That really got to me. And then I think I developed thicker skin after that. And even after competing at the Games, I still got the questions of if I was pregnant or how far along I was pregnant. I’m like, All right, so this is just, this is my new body. This is, this is what I have. But I managed to gradually, like with this, making this a little bit shorter here, but like I’m I took very, very slow steps, way slower than I ever could have expected, and what I thought was possible and was out there were, what I was seeing from other people, how they were bouncing back, what I was seeing from others, running a treadmill, jumping, doing collabs, bar muscle ups. Like it took me a really long time, a lot of hard work. I wasn’t able to start running until eight months postpartum. So, like there were just so many obstacles, and I didn’t really think I would be able to get that strength back and that my core would actually recover, until I started looking at it as what it was an injury, like it was an injury to my pelvic floor. And the pelvic floor is a muscle, like any other muscle that you can train, and I know how to train muscles, and I know how to recover from injury, so that was like a shift in mindset that I had to have. I needed assistance to take the proper and right steps. It also made me go slow, because I wanted to be able to jump on a trampoline with my daughter in the future. I wanted to be able to go for a run in the future, so me pushing it too early would not allow me to get there. So I was super patient, because now I recognized there was an injury I still don’t know, like after having Atlas. Yes, that was the C section. We can maybe talk about that a little bit later, but that was the C section then, and my recovery was significantly better after that, especially pelvic floor, but my core still takes a while to recover. I still had coning, and now after this one, I’ll probably still have coning, and I’ll need to just continue to work on that. But that is that was a lot of the comments that I got when I started lifting weights again. It was then I had like an HGH gut, and then those things bothered me, until I started seeing all the women that came to my defense with it, or like she had a baby, she had a baby,

Brianna Battles  25:46

yeah, and you were one of the first very fit, very public CrossFit moms that showed something different than the narrative of if I work out during pregnancy and I’m very fit that I’m going to have this very easy, straightforward birth, and I’m going to bounce back. My body’s going to be unfazed, and you showed the reality of what most women experience across the spectrum, right? Like not everyone’s going to have the same like a traumatic birth or whatever, but I would say most women, at some point in their motherhood journey, struggle with something, whether that is their pregnancy, their birth experience, breastfeeding, changes to their body, pelvic health, symptoms, the diastasis, like there’s no like, you can’t go unscathed. But I think that there’s this expectation as a very fit, healthy, athletic mom, and then you have this public like persona, when you started sharing the reality, it resonated with so many women, because they finally saw somebody who validated their experience, instead of this highlight reel. And I will still work with people that only show the highlight reel and behind the scenes. So many of them are struggling, and I know you guys know that too, like they’re struggling their mental health or they’re having pelvic health symptoms, but they’re not sharing that on social media. And I think what has been so powerful is that you really have just owned it, and you’ve shown all of the changes. You’ve been really honest, and you’ve been able to compare and contrast your first pregnancy or your second to your third, and your different birth experiences, and just like shared honestly without an agenda. And I think that’s been really refreshing.

Annie Thorisdottir  27:28

Thank you. It’s been really, it was really hard, yeah, and I didn’t want to share everything. In the beginning, I didn’t want to share my birth and then a shirt my birth. And I made it better because I got shared experiences from other women that are gone through something similar, and they were okay. And then I shared my postpartum depression that I struggled with, and that was something I would never planned on sharing, not because I was ashamed of it, but it’s not why people follow me on social media, right? So I was like that didn’t seem like my role to do that. But then I started hearing about it from my girlfriends and all around me, and people that didn’t want to talk about it that then shared it when I told them, because I wasn’t ashamed of it, like I just talked about it, and then I got their experience, and I’m like, All right, I guess I will share this. And then body pictures like I didn’t want to post a picture of myself how I looked. I was embarrassed that I still had a belly two months, three months, four months postpartum. And I’m like, You know what? After everything else I’ve shared, someone will probably be grateful for this. So if it’s me, I will just share this.

Brianna Battles  28:44

That would have changed so much for me had I seen somebody like you when I was having babies. Because I remember, like, after I had Cade, I would search the Instagram, like, you know, like, where you can just, like, search the Explore page, and I would look for fit moms with stomachs that look like mine, and I couldn’t find any, you know, you just like, that wasn’t seen. I just wanted to see, like, what is wrong with me? Like, I’m fit, healthy, I’ve lost this weight now, why do I look different? And it just it wasn’t clear. There was no one showcasing the very real and normal and expected changes to the body postpartum, sometimes there’s outward physical change, and other times there’s inward change, pelvic floor injury, mental health struggles. And we we’re really very rarely shown that. And I think you both actually have done a really great job of being honest and sharing your process. And I know Katrin, on the other hand, you went into your pregnancy, obviously, with Annie in your corner. You’d learned a lot vicariously through her experiences, and because of that, you wanted to know as much as possible about your training, and you had a really open mindset, like you just always were really, like, positive and practical without having like. Rigid expectations, or, I guess, a rigid approach. And I was, I was always really impressed by that.

Katrin Davidsdottir  30:06

Thank you. I think I went into pregnancy in a very good state. And I’m gonna say it was probably a little bit easier for me to be in that state, because I had just recently retired, and I was so excited to step into this next chapter and be a mom and be pregnant. And my focus was not on how can I come back to competing? I just wanted to stay fit and healthy. And right now I still I need it for myself to feel like an athlete, like I love feeling fit. I love feeling athletic. It’s something that me and Brooks share, and so I’ll always want to incorporate training and also training at a certain capacity. But I didn’t have the competition spectrum at it. And so I feel like it was very easy for me to be open to training, being exercise, training, being good for me and my baby, and then having both of you in my corner and as resource, I felt like I had great guidance with what am I missing, because I was very concerned with what am I not doing that I should be doing. I think that was my thing that I was constantly thinking of, like, oh, do I need to be doing something for my biggest thing was actually my back and my pelvic floor. So I’ve never, luckily through my career, I never had any pelvic floor issues. And so it actually never worked on my pelvic floor, and I felt like I had no connection with it. And so I didn’t know, you know, I’d never been through birth before. And I think my biggest thing was just the uncertainty of that, of, like, you know, is it going to be great? Is it not going to be great? Am I going to know what to do? Like, I don’t know how to push I don’t know am I going to do? I need to activate it or not activate it, like I just had no clue. So those were things that I started to need to just make those connections for myself and also just learning. I remember one of the things was just kind of like rotational core, and it was just all such different exercises than I had been doing, but I felt really good knowing like, okay, now I feel like I’m doing something that is going to assist me in birth. You know, you can never be guaranteed with that, but at least I felt like I was doing as much as I can to hopefully prepare for what I felt like was the biggest unknown that I had gotten into before, and the same time with talking about my back, it was, I mean, it’s so funny how we talk about our explore feed, and it just fills with things that like you i are interested in or looking at. And the whole, my whole thing became about like birth. It came about, like the birth canal became how, like the baby moves through the birth it’s amazing, like, how it twists in the right ways, and how things need to open, and how your spine needs to actually, like it needs to move and be mobile so the baby can get through. And I have a fusion, and I just remember that was one of the things I’m like, Is my back going to move like it needs to move like? Is my poly floor going to release in the sense that it needs to release to allow the baby to come through? So those were all things that you know, think you also get kind of hyper focused on those things. But I didn’t know. And so all I could do in that moment, I remember thinking the whole birth, I was like, Okay, I need to trust that my body will do what it needs to do. Needs to do, and I will, I will try and give it what I can to prepare for it.

Brianna Battles  33:48

Yeah, and you did a great job, like, all through your pregnancy. You know, it was great to be able to work with you and see you like, midway through your pregnancy, and then at the end of your pregnancy, where, just for those listening, because we knew he had had back surgery, we were trying to get her to be able, like, the cue that worked really well, and works well for so many women. It’s like thinking about breathing into your butt, like, so we were doing, yeah, yeah, training exercises to create that lengthening of the pelvic floor. Because as athletes, we’re already strong. We are already tense. The pelvic floor is already strong. Annie, you mentioned in your birth that, like, your pelvic floor, like, just like, wasn’t able to, like, fully relax, to like, let her drop in. And I think that’s a really common experience for so many athletes, because we’re really great at generating tension. We are really great at holding a contraction. We are not great at relaxing and letting go. And so, you know, when we talk about, like, preparing for birth, of course, there’s a million variables that are outside of our control, but understanding ourselves as athletes and saying, okay, like, it’s not about being strong, it’s about being able to, you know, lengthen and have. Connection to that core system. Be able to do some down training exercises that prepare your brain, not just your body, but your brain. Be able to, like, you know, let go and like, get getting you to feel what it felt like to have your pelvic floor lengthened by saying, I want you to breathe into your butt when we’re, like, in a all fours position, you know, where you’re getting that lengthening. But that’s like, not intuitive for athletes we’re good at, like creating, not creating, lengthening, you know?

Katrin Davidsdottir  35:27

And that was surprising to me too, because I feel like we’re always told that we need to strengthen our pelvic floor. We need to strengthen our pelvic floor, strengthen it, strengthen it. And I think as athletes, it is the exact opposite for birth is that we actually need to learn how to release it.

Brianna Battles  35:43

Yes, gotta let it go. And that is not intuitive. We are not really connected to that system. No. And for anyone listening, if we are trained to suck in our stomach oftentimes squeeze our glutes, Val salvo, like all of these different training strategies that all serve a purpose at different points in time, yeah, during pregnancy and in the rehabilitation phase postpartum, being able to connect to the pelvic floor at a neuromuscular level, like lengthening it, getting more familiarity there, like that, serves a purpose. Also, that kind of awareness serves a purpose, also, whether it is trying to get your body ready for birth, so that your pelvic floor can relax more, or it’s recovering from birth, because in order to heal an injury, in order to rehab a pelvic floor, it has to be able to lengthen and contract. Yeah, both, it’s not just about being strong. And I would say in most cases, women already have a pretty strong pelvic floor because they hold so much tension there. There, of course, some women that needed more strengthening, but for the most part, it’s about that lengthening and contraction. It’s about that coordination of the system.

Annie Thorisdottir  37:00

Yeah, yeah. I think just like finding a balance even afterwards, for me, when my pelvic floor was not strong enough, like, far from it, what I had to make sure I did was, like, I did my pelvic floor exercises, but I always did my stretches or relaxation afterwards, and I could feel that was had to do like that was all I had to do in the beginning. But yes, that was the tension I was feeling walking down now. My pelvic floor was too tired. It was too fatigued. I had to give it the proper rest it needed. That was like child pose, or even just lying over the couch with my butt a little bit higher when watching TV in the evening, making sure I was getting, like, breathing and getting the rest into the pelvic floor and like, that’s what happens. You were, like, doing double unders, and you tighten so much trying to hold it in that they’re getting fatigue. You need to also let them rest and recover and then redo.

Brianna Battles  37:55

Like, so glad you said that, because our brain goes into protective mode. And so protection is I’m going to hold, I’m going to protect, and I’m going to contract, and sometimes that can irritate symptoms. So it’s not that like, and this is important for anyone who’s managing a pelvic floor symptom, either during pregnancy or postpartum. It’s not that you have like now made your pelvic floor worse after your workout or worse after your long walk. It’s just that you, like you said, it’s fatigued. It is tired. It needs to rest and relax. And again, like just sort of like reset and down train. So getting those positions that allow the lengthening, because it’s been working so hard to provide support. But again, is that intuitive? Absolutely not. No. It’s the opposite of what we think. We think, if it’s if it feels bad, then we need to work it harder, you know exactly.

Annie Thorisdottir  38:47

And you think you’re resting it by just like sitting on the couch or something. And then you’re doing your Kegels when your kid is having breast milk or, like, drinking or whatever. And you’re trying to think about doing it in your free time or something. But you need to also, then make sure that you give it the appropriate rest in between. That was a balance I had to find. I was like, immediately, just wanted to get these like, weights that you could, like, put up and hold on to, because I’m like, I’m gonna strain this muscle so hard. And I was like, stay away from that. You at least needed, needed to be strong enough to hold away first,

Brianna Battles  39:24

it’s again, and it’s hard because this is it also seems kind of boring, you know? And I talk to people, and it’s like, no one wants to do that during pregnancy. We want to be like, doing our normal workouts and our routine. So I say, like, if you can during pregnancy, incorporating it into your warm up and cool down really helps, because that, like, automatically integrates and obviously in the program we’ve partnered on, that’s all part of, like the coaching tutorials May is it’s I know that look, Most pregnant athletes and postpartum athletes don’t want to be doing additional sets of exercises, but. If we can incorporate some pelvic floor strategies and training and awareness into the movements we’re already doing, into the squats, into the deadlifts, into the walking lunges, or into the kettlebell swings, then like that’s already creating a great foundation of pelvic health and of that, that, again, that neuromuscular connection, where it’s not having to be this separately removed thing, it’s already part of your training. So while, yeah, deadlifts aren’t new for pregnant athletes, and they’re not new for postpartum athletes. How they’re being performed can be like the built in prehab or the built in rehab. And I always like to say like, that is what distinguishes this from, you know, I’d say like, our typical training background,

Annie Thorisdottir  40:43

yeah, no, that’s also, like, just such a good way you’re gonna be doing this warm up exercises anyway. So that was always how I like doing it now, like I do my lunges, and then I’m thinking of contraction, pelvic floor and core, standing up, exhaling, and then it incorporates and goes into your training for a little bit longer, until it like this, automatically thing,

Katrin Davidsdottir  41:06

yeah, I remember that being the biggest thing when you first came to visit was my breathing. My breathing was just off from how I breathe and how I brace, like I also always brace. I think that’s where my back injury, I braced very much down and, like, back, I think it was to protect my back, versus, like, Okay, I actually had to think about, like, we thought about breathing into my laps. And so I was bracing in a different way for pregnancy than I was actually in all rest of my career. And so it’s also just learning new breathing tactics, or breathing mechanics and for bracing, for training,

Brianna Battles  41:45

yeah, it’s just like, I tell everyone like it is, it is not the strategy. It is not the right way. It is just another way that accommodates the structural changes that our body experiences during pregnancy and the state of our body postpartum like, not fragile, also not invincible. So this is one tool that helps pregnant and postpartum athletes be adaptable. Is like, let’s look at pressure, like Annie pressures out into her midline, like she’s done that. You’ve done that your whole life. I’ve watched you for over a decade. You know, like you just you send all of your pressure out into your midline. But that’s also a like that is so related to the sports you played growing up, you know, where everything is, like forward chest, thrusted rib cage, lots of extension, and then caption, like you said, with your back always protecting so it’s like the kind of honing in, like downward pressure, bracing around that, like low AB, pelvic floor, to create stability and security around your back. Neither of those strategies are bad or inappropriate or dangerous. They are not. And I want to be like, really clear when I say that, and they don’t always serve our bodies at all different points throughout our life, like sometimes there’s a time to introduce a new way to do things. And pregnancy and postpartum are typically good times to introduce a new way, a new way, not the way, just a new way.

Annie Thorisdottir  43:08

Yeah, exactly, yeah.

Brianna Battles  43:11

And you guys, I think, are both great examples of that, where obviously, how you lift and how you generate pressure and how you manage tension in your bodies has served you at the highest levels, and during these particular seasons, you both have been willing to do things differently on behalf of what your body needs at that point in time, like what Annie you were doing early postpartum, to create connection to that pelvic floor and get it stronger and get it healthier is going to be different than what you always had done previously, and that’s okay, because, like you said, it was, it was an injury that you were having to recover from, so you needed different tools and then catch and just trying to be really proactive, knowing what your predisposition was with your back injury, and doing everything you could to give your body the support that it needed. Annie, what is next for you? You said you’re due in a couple weeks here.

Annie Thorisdottir  44:03

Yeah, so I’m doing exactly two weeks. Wow. Well, I’m doing two weeks and three days, but I’ll be going for a C section in exactly two weeks. Difficult decision and an easy one because of my so in Iceland, you actually cannot choose if you have a C section or normal birth, unless you have a history and a very traumatic birth. So after my first one, I there was no doubt in my mind I was going for a C section with the second one, it’s obviously a major surgery and painful recovery and all of that, but in wasn’t that much of a decision for myself. It was more I wanted to make sure I would be able to be there for my baby girl like she was. Gaining a new sibling, and I could not imagine being asked this drawing after giving birth for her sake, like not being able to take care of myself and the newborn, and not being able to give her what she would need. So I therefore, I chose the C section. It went very well for me. The recovery for me was significantly better than after first birth, but now, obviously, like I, my dream would be to give a normal birth and recover, be able to come home same day, be with a family and just like not need a major surgery, but I we have made a decision that we’re going to do a C section again, mainly because we don’t want to take the chance of the other maybe, if I would start Early and everything looks like it’s going okay, I might try, but I think it’s the right decision for the family that I do a C section, and it is just a different birth and that was like a very, very different birthing experience, just like being rolled In and you’re like, I am having a baby today, like it’s like

Brianna Battles  46:24

I my second one was also as a planned cesarean after pretty traumatic first birth. And the difference between a traumatic birth, whether it’s vaginal or cesarean, and then more of a planned cesarean, is a dramatic difference in experience, in outcome and everything, because, like, your nervous system is in a healthier place. You’re not You’re not being traumatized. So I wish you all of the best in that process, and obviously care for you. But I think there’s, there’s a lot of stigma around C sections, and I don’t stand for it. I think that they’re all birth is birth. I think that there’s no right or best way. It’s all at a very individual level, and both have their own unique physiological considerations, but more importantly, a lot of similarities. Like no matter how your baby comes out, it’s still something to recover from, it’s still something to honor. And both birth circumstances are a big deal.

Annie Thorisdottir  47:25

That was actually what I thought was so interesting when, sorry, when I got the C section, like I had never thought about it as, like, stigma around it, or that wasn’t like the right way to do it, because that was the right way for me in that case, but I thought it was, it didn’t bother me at all, and I didn’t get any negative comments on that. But I did get a lot and started seeing a lot of like, that’s also a normal brand. Then I started noticing on like comment sections, on like different posts and stuff, just like about C section. But I just think it’s so interesting, how oblivious I might be to a lot of these ideas, because, of course, you’re still, you’ve still carried the baby. It’s coming into the world a different way. It’s a major surgery that takes you a long time to recover from. But so like, I would always choose a normal birth that goes well, then C section and then a birth that is, like, traumatic and difficult, I would always choose, like either one of those, and you’re going to recover faster from a normal birth. If you can do that. I would try to do that, but you need to make a decision that’s right for you and for your family, like no one else can be in your shoes and make the call for you. That’s what I thought was so interesting about this, and I I never felt any shame about my second C section.

Katrin Davidsdottir  48:47

What’s the end goal? It’s to get a healthy baby and a healthy mom. Like, if everybody is healthy, great. That’s the end that’s the perfect end goal.

Annie Thorisdottir  48:56

That’s the same as giving birth at home. Like, I don’t judge that. It’s amazing if women can do that. It must be so comfortable to be able to be at home. I wouldn’t have been able to be at home like my child or me probably would have died. Well, we would have died if I wouldn’t have gotten the assistance I gotten on hospital. So like, again, it’s just like different cases for different women, and I am grateful for the world that we live in now, because, yeah, otherwise I will not be here.

Brianna Battles  49:26

I absolutely agree with that, Catherine, you are postpartum now, and you’re still pretty early postpartum. How are you feeling?

Katrin Davidsdottir  49:35

Lots of things. I’m feeling all the things. You know, I would say I had a very good birth, different but very similar to what you guys are saying. Like, I always felt like, yeah, home birth would be amazing. I’m definitely not brave enough to have done that with my first and especially not when I was like, oh, would she be able to make it through the birth canal? Is my back and move? Is it not? I would always, you know, I always said, like, maybe if I have two amazing births. It’s and I know I just, I have easy bursts, like, maybe I do a home one, but when she came out very fast, she had fluid in her lungs, and they actually needed to, they try to, like, get the fluid out, and then they put her on a oxygen machine, because she was, she was straining to breathe with some they saw her nostrils flare and her rib cage flare, and so they’re like, she’s working too hard to breathe, so we’re going to put her on an oxygen machine for a couple hours. And I think about that of like, that was the best thing for her in that moment. And because of that experience, I would not want to give home birth again. It’s amazing if that happens and I get it, you’re home, you’re home with your baby. But that was a that was a scary thing to immediately after, you know, she gets put on my chest, to immediately get taken off of my chest, and all I’m thinking is, is she okay? Sure, that’s all. I remember. I was like, is she okay? Is she okay? Is your issue? Breathing? Is she breathing? And just knowing that she was in good hands, she got taken care of right away. So she spent four days in the NICU, which, again, I just remember being like, you know, thinking that’s not how I imagined, you know, like I imagined her being on my chest. I imagine having the golden hour that everybody talks about, and I didn’t get to breastfeed her until it was about 15 hours after birth, and so, but at the same time, like, nobody imagines being in the NICU, nobody’s imagining this, like these things happen, and she was never in danger. And so I was always able to just have that as perspective. But things don’t always go as planned. But after that, I would say, we got home and we have a very good baby. She is a little dream and she is incredible, but at the same time, it’s a new role, it’s a new adjustment, and we’re learning our new life with her. And so right now, we’re three and a half months postpartum, and my body is, I would say my pelvic floor is getting better now, like I at the start, like, I’m curious, and I think it was around like eight weeks that I started trying to jog again, and very quickly, are like, nope, nope, I’m not jogging today. You know, I remember starting to, like, even going below parallel. You’re like, nope, not ready to do an air squat, like, and then slowly, kind of start figuring out, like, okay, it feels better, or this feels better. And I’m very much just trying to listen to my body and just kind of, I think, as athletes, you’re very in tune with what’s happening. And so everything that I do, I’m always trying to figure out, like, okay, how am I feeling there? And I would say the one like lingering thing for me is single, like stuff still feels kind of strange, and like things don’t feel exactly how they’re supposed to feel. And same as Andy kind of described that, it does help me to think about this as an injury. I did tear. I had substantial tearing. And I also there was another, you know, surprising thing is that after even, like, sitting down to breastfeed her, I just remember, like, I was it hurt so bad to sit and I was when being like that was a huge surprise to me. There were things that I was maybe, like, nervous about or expecting. And I still remember Annie being like, What were you expecting? I was like, I don’t know. I didn’t think about it. I wasn’t thinking what would happen down there. I was just gonna give birth, you know. So all of these things were just new experiences and new feelings, and it is a tear and it is an injury, and yeah, so just kind of taking that time to kind of figure out, what is my body going through, how is it feeling today, and taking the time to get there. But my whole goal is I want to get back to feeling fit and in shape, and we want to have more kids. And so I’m excited to do that, but I’m also excited to feel like to feel like an athlete again, to feel fit and to feel in shape and kind of start working on that again? Yeah, absolutely.

Brianna Battles  54:07

I mean, it’s definitely a transformative experience. And regardless of fitness level, regardless of vaginal birth or cesarean it does just take time to feel like yourself again postpartum. And it’s not just physical, it’s the mental, it’s the emotional, it’s it’s acclimating to a new baby. It’s the routine change. It’s the family change. Like, there’s so many elements of transformation. Yeah, it’s enough. You guys experience the anxiety after giving birth,

Annie Thorisdottir  54:33

my God. Like checking the temperature constantly. Other rap, too much, too light, too like, is the window open too much? I close it a little bit more open a little bit more. Yes, even more. I’m like, Oh my god. Frederick was like, Annie, you need to be better with a second one, otherwise you’re going to drive yourself and myself crazy.

Katrin Davidsdottir  54:54

Yes, yeah. You start imagining things of like, Oh my gosh. Like. You know, you started getting a little bit nervous about getting in the car, like, which time your car you, like, triple check everything. Like, I’ve never had so much just anxiety, like, after having her

Annie Thorisdottir  55:11

also, just like, the first time you leave, at least, I felt like that the first time you left the hospital, like, walking out with her, I’m like, I felt like I was stealing someone. I’m like, is this legal? You’re like, can I just take her? Is this? Yeah, what? What happens right now? I because you get, like, the courses and giving birth, you get a course and, like, maybe breastfeeding, or how to train or something. But I don’t feel together. It is not possible to prep someone for what, what ways for you when you come home, and all of a sudden you’re like, responsible for this human being. And you feel it like, right now, my baby is so safe in here, like he is so safe in here, and then he comes out, and all of a sudden it’s like, all the dangerous of the world and everything that can happen, and I’m just gonna sit there and I’m gonna monitor you for the rest

Katrin Davidsdottir  56:04

of your life. Oh, yeah. And another thing too that we just mentioned, too, is breastfeeding. You see women breastfeed, and it looks so natural and so cozy. That was one of the things. I was so excited to breastfeed. I’m like, oh. And then the pain of breast eating for the first five or six weeks, like, she would start crying, and I literally remember being like, she’s not hungry, she’s not hungry, and Bruce, like, I think she’s hungry, and I’m like, she she can’t be hungry because, like, I’m and then I started feeling so much guilt for just being like, because then you’d put her on the boob and she’s hungry. She was definitely hungry, but I was in so much pain feeding her, and I wanted to breastfeed so bad. And so I was like, one of those things. I was like, I have to just, I have to make it through this. And then I feel like it was at like, five weeks or something, that one of my boobs got better, and then I could kind of see the light for the other one, and, like, make it through and now it’s the greatest thing in the world now. It is so natural. It kind of just like you pop around there, and it’s such great bonding time for us, and it’s so nice. But going back to those first weeks, I also wish I would have known like, okay, it’s not easy. I’ve never done this before. She has never done this before. Both of us are just trying to figure this out, and my nipples have never gone through this volume before, so they’re going to feel raw like that.

Brianna Battles  57:29

So no, it is. It’s such a vulnerable time, like you just like mentioned, like a few key things, like the anxiety or the depression, like so mentally, you’re just more susceptible, like you’re just more vulnerable. Physically, your body is healing. It’s hard to sit, it’s hard to walk. Your abs can feel weird, like it’s just a breastfeeding like there’s just so many different variables that influence how you feel, and ultimately, that recovery, postpartum, and I say all of this to give moms listening to permission to like, give yourself grace, give yourself time. There’s a learning curve, there’s a healing process. You are not supposed to feel like yourself immediately postpartum. It does just take a little bit of time, because you’re acclimating to so much, you are healing so much. There is a hormonal dumpster fire happening so much is going on, and just giving yourself Grace without like rigid expectation will honestly allow you to make progress mentally, physically and emotionally so much faster.

Katrin Davidsdottir  58:34

Yeah, 100% Yeah.

Brianna Battles  58:38

So we are just about an hour here, so tell us a little bit more about where people can follow along with you, and what programs you guys offer, because you you guys bring a lot to the table.

Katrin Davidsdottir  58:50

Well, I’ll start with the pregnancy ones we have. You can choose if you want the whole 44 to 40, or if you want to start halfway through, because that’s about the time when you know, because at the beginning of pregnancy, very often, you can still continue to do everything that you were doing. My hardest weeks were actually at the beginning of pregnancy, just because I was so nauseous and so tired, like I did not have the energy, and I would much rather open up our pregnancy program and have something that feels very manageable to me. So at least I go in and I have something that I know I can do, and I get something in and I get some movement that I know is good for me. We have an at home version of it, and then we have our postpartum one coming out very soon, and hopefully we’re still looking at dates, but I’m hoping that it aligns, that I can actually come do your pregnancy coaches course next month, which I’m so excited to learn, and we’ve talked so much about how just a difference between experience and expertise, and I feel like I have so. Some experience now, but I would love to learn more, and I’d love to learn so much more from you. So yes, that’s pregnancy side of what we have.

Annie Thorisdottir  1:00:11

And this is all on Empower by daughter. And this is that, yeah, the pregnancy program that we have, and then we have for Peri and postmenopausal women, we have programs. That was where we started. That’s the dream would be to have. Also, I really want to have something for just young girls when they start having their periods and getting to know their bodies, but we’ll get down that path at a later point, but just a female platform in general, but this all started our empower my daughter. Started with my mom going menopause, and I was assisting her, and she was not getting the results I was expecting. My dad got a six pack and bad shape he had been in for a long time, and my mom had little to no change, and I just felt like frustrated and lost and heartbroken that I wasn’t able to help her. So the only thing I could think of was hormones and menopause. So I like do in fully 2020, into that, and we ended up partnering with Dr Stacy Sims as well on our first programs, and we have program for just like active women, it is pretty much just like a change that’s happening in your body. And I think it’s such important information for women to get and understanding, just like we’re talking about when you’re pregnant, understanding the changes your body is going through and what to expect, and it’s the same period, both menopause, understanding what’s happening. There’s a reason for most of the same things you might be feeling, and added body weight, and it is we can there’s so we can do, and there’s so much you almost have to do, and you’re never too late, and it’s not like a just a six week program. This is the rest of your life. So we, I think it’s important to always give you education. So we’re trying to educate women and assist them with training, with their physiology are not against this. So we got at home program for those who want to be at home. We have at home bringing you to the gym program, and that we have in gym programs and tons of knowledge and education, both like lectures and on our platform. So that’s that’s where we are at right now.

Katrin Davidsdottir  1:02:42

I also just think as being athletes and through our own careers, i and i know any I can kind of speak for both of us on this, but we just do so much better when you know the why behind and I remember always, what’s the stimulus behind this? Like, why are we doing this? And if I know why, the word workout becomes so much better. And I also just believe on times when you’re like, ah, like, you know you’re tired, or should you go work out? Should you not if you know why you’re doing this, and you have kind of like, a goal that you’re trying to get to, or a longevity thing that you’re getting to that also assists you and being a motivator for that day, that assists you in getting the better stimulus for that. If you’re kind of questioning, should the workout be like this or this? I think if you have an understanding of what it should be, it is so powerful, and that’s a huge thing too, that we also want to educate. We also want women to understand why and the science behind it, so that they can have that, the powerful push, the powerful pull, the motivator for them to do this, and it brings so much more enjoyment into it too, absolutely.

Brianna Battles  1:03:50

Well, I’m really proud of you guys, and I’m thankful that we were able to connect and partner to like, join join forces, and I love the examples that you guys are giving to so many CrossFit moms, with so many just active moms in general. I think you know, you bring the the reality of these seasons, and it’s that is what is truly empowering is that you guys are bringing the reality, not just the highlight reel. And I’m grateful that we connected and very grateful that you guys came on share today.

Katrin Davidsdottir  1:04:23

Likewise, thank you for you for being so open and just having you know, for over 10 years you have been doing this, not only with your own experience, but working with, I don’t even know, how many athletes and women you have worked with, and just so thankful for your vulnerability and for how open you have been with your own experiences and sharing it with not only us, but just women all around the world. So thank you.

Brianna Battles  1:04:50

Thank you for saying that. All right, ladies, we’ll talk soon. Thank you so much for listening to this. Episode of the Practice Brave podcast. If you enjoyed the show, please leave a review and help us spread the work we are doing to improve the overall information and messaging in the fitness industry and beyond. Now, if you are pregnant and you are looking for a trustworthy exercise program to follow, I have you covered. The pregnant athlete training program is a well rounded program for pregnancy with workouts for each week that are appropriate for your changing body. That’s 36 weeks of workouts, three to four workouts each week, and tons of guidance on exercise strategy. We also have an at home version of that program if you are postpartum and you’re looking for an exercise program to follow, the eight week postpartum athlete training program would be a really great way to help bridge the gap between rehab and the fitness you actually want to do. From there, we have the practice brave fitness program, which is an ongoing strength conditioning program where you get new workouts each week and have a lot of guidance for myself and my co coach, Heather Osby, this is the only way that I’m really offering ongoing coaching at this point in time. If you have ever considered becoming a certified pregnancy and postpartum athleticism coach, I would love to have you join us. Pregnancy and postpartum athleticism is a self paced online certification course that will up level your coaching skills and help connect the dots between pelvic health and long term athletic performance, especially during pregnancy and postpartum, become who you needed and become who your online and local community needs by becoming a certified pregnancy and postpartum athleticism Coach, thank you again for listening to The practice brave podcast. I appreciate you, and please help me continue spreading this messaging, this information and this work.